[00:00:00] Speaker A: 10 inches.
That is 10 inches of snow is what it takes to make 1 inch of water.
And this year, Colorado snowpack is sitting at roughly 52% of the normal.
That's not just a ski season problem. It's a structural shortfall. Across the American West. Snowpack is the first reservoir and the first signal of what's to come. Later in the year, a weak winter becomes summer, drought, wildfire risk and tighter allocations on water supplies. Months later, this deficit doesn't stay in the mountains, moves downstream through the water markets, power grids, and ultimately municipal budgets. Snow is infrastructure, and this year it's underfilled.
I'm Rhys Tisdall. This is Future of Water, which we talk about all the ways which companies, utilities and people are addressing the challenges and opportunities in water.
This is episode 137, and I have a pretty good feeling it's going to be a good one. That's because I'm going to speak with Bluefield research director Amber Walsh about the broader water footprint of data centers, not just on site, but also off site, including the power grid or the power network, as well as we'll talk a little bit about semiconductors, too. Essentially, the question is, why is everybody so concerned? Or should they be?
But before we get to Amber, you're going to have to bear with me just a little bit longer. Something caught my eye this past week.
Well, what caught my eye this past week is the continued rise of bottled water and what it signals for the water sector.
The bottled water sector, or industry, has become a significant economic force. Globally, the market is valued at about $340 billion in 2026 and is projected to surpass $500 billion by the 2000-30s. In the US alone, retail sales hit about $50 billion in 2024, with water now firmly established as the top packaged beverage by volume that shift was. And why I'm talking about it because it was on full display during the super bowl when Liquid Death made its national big game debut. Bottled and canned water is no longer just what seems like a utility product. It's a lifestyle brand. And you know what that means. It's competing for the same cultural headspace and consumer dollars as soda, energy drinks and what seems like if you talk to beer distributors and distilleries, even alcohol, which has another water impact as well.
But why do I think about this first? It's the bigger question is it's a question of public trust.
And that's really the first concern that I would have when anybody asked me about bottled water. Bottled Water marketing frequently means, or what is it? It leans into themes of purity, clean and safe.
Even when it's subtle, that messaging can reinforce a perception that tap water is somehow inferior and even crazier. It's been reported that approximately 64% of bottled water in the US comes from municipal sources. Hmm, go figure. Who's smart here?
Second, infrastructure financing risk. If higher income households. Why I'm picking on higher income households because I can. Because if they increasingly opt out of drinking tap water, they may feel less invested in the public system.
Particularly when rate increases or bond measures come up for vote. They're going to be the ones who are raising Cain. And that creates a potential death spiral dynamic. So declining political support from those most able to pay while fixed infrastructure costs continue to rise.
We talk a lot about that at Bluefield. And then third, resource sustainability tensions. In some regions, large scale groundwater extraction for bottling operations competes directly with municipal supplies. Go talk to Perrier, which I don't know if they're still in business. They were having troubles for a number of different reasons. And I would also add bottled water. Those suppliers, they're not immune from pfas and other contaminants that people say are just in tap water.
That being said, for utilities, the takeaway is clear.
They are competing on trust, transparency and performance and against marketing machines that, quite honestly, I'm not sure they're able to or even they should compete against. This is something to think about. So next time, next super bowl, when you're watching and liquid death comes up again, who's raised hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars, I think about what it means for the broader water sector. So with that being said, let's get to Amber Walsh and talk a little bit about data centers and power and what all of that means and what the footprint is.
All right, so I'm joined here by Amber Walsh. Amber, it's been a minute. So I guess for everybody who they've heard you on the podcast before, we've in fact talked about data centers before. The hottest topic in the world, it seems like, whether it's data centers, whether it's AI or all of the above. So what's going on? How you been?
[00:05:24] Speaker B: I've been good. Just coming back from the Patriots super bowl appearance.
[00:05:31] Speaker A: Appearance is a nice way to put it, but a little bit painful. But I was boastful, I think, on my last podcast episode and now pay the price and eat the crow. But all right, so let's talk a little bit about data centers now that I've Got you pinned down for a minute.
So we've just released a report, I think it actually just posted yesterday and it's looking at the impact of data centers on the power sector, but more specific to Bluefield. And what we do is what does that mean for the water footprint or impact of data centers off site? So let's just talk about this, I guess. Has there been a fundamental shift in where water risk actually sits for data centers? So is the AI data driven data center boom, is it redefining water risk? What's the from minisp cooling to power generation? Where is that risk and what does it look like if you map it out?
[00:06:34] Speaker B: Definitely, that's a great question. So we see a lot in the news that these big AI data centers are coming and taking all the community water.
What we're actually seeing is these large scale AI data centers, they have advanced cooling systems. So they're using liquid cooling. It's more efficient than your traditional cooling methods. The heat rejection systems at these facilities, they can use dry cooling. Some use a hybrid approach. So there's still water going on there. But the key takeaway really is that at many of these new sites the water intensity is actually shrinking.
But something that now we're definitely paying much more attention to is that the power demand to not only power the cooling systems, but also the crazy compute demands that these facilities are requiring that power generation is what the water risk really stands at. And just to kind of put in perspective how much this data center boom is really impacting the power gen market, the data center industry accounted for approximately 4 to 5% of electricity demand in 2023, 2024. This was even up from 1 to 2% a decade ago. And that's projected to jump to nearly 9% just by the end of the decade. So we're really seeing significant growth there.
[00:07:56] Speaker A: So all right, so fundamentally data centers are becoming more. The new build are more water efficient. Right. And so that's what we're seeing there.
That's where a lot of the pushback is fairly or unfairly. It sounds like it might be a little bit unfair because really the water demand from what you're telling me, is elsewhere. So what does this mean for water when you look at it as far as total volume?
[00:08:22] Speaker B: So the power sector is by far the largest withdrawer of water when we look at industrial so the water needed to generate the electricity, it's significant and definitely can't be overlooked. Just so in 2024 the power sector withdrew 45, 46 trillion gallons of water.
So That's a lot of water, especially compared to other industries.
They consume approximately 2 to 3% of that. And then just to put this in context of why it matters for data centers. So our exercise that we did was look at the water footprint. So how does on site water consumption at the data center compared to the off site? And if you look at the upstream, so the power gen that's, that's required to power these facilities, that adds 72% on the water footprint. So that's the water just consumed by the power plants needed for, for data center operation.
[00:09:20] Speaker A: So the, I mean that. And that's your last word or last comment, but consumed, there's a big difference between consumed and withdrawals, Right? I think that's the issue when we talk about the power sector. That's a key differentiator, correct?
[00:09:36] Speaker B: Definitely. So we looked at consumption in relation to data centers because we didn't feel it was fair.
Some of these open cooling systems at the power plants, they, they take that water once through and then they discharge it. And that doesn't have a huge impact because yes, they're putting it back at potentially like a higher temperature, but it's still going right back to the watershed. So we looked specifically at the water consumption piece of it which if you look at the withdrawals, it definitely boosts that piece significantly.
[00:10:11] Speaker A: All right, so data center water demand is going down over, it will go down over time because of just efficiencies and switching to different solutions and technology. So in all fairness to big tech, these data center companies and all the REITs, the real estate investment trust that own a lot of these facilities, they're focused on it, they're working towards it.
Changing over the existing fleet is a little bit tougher. Right. And I think the industry in some respects is being held accountable for past inefficiencies. Am I correct in saying that?
[00:10:54] Speaker B: Yes. So a metric that's thrown around a lot at the data center is W E. So that's the water intensity essentially of the cooling and that has dramatically decreased over the past couple years. And when we put it in perspective of growth, so we are still seeing on site consumption expected to increase through the end of the decade slower than it did in the past 10 years because of those efficiency gains. But just because of all the new builds coming online, there still is an uptick. But the really interesting point is the power piece. So that indirect water consumption is going to grow a lot faster attributed to data centers.
[00:11:33] Speaker A: All right, so that makes sense. So, and that's probably where the industry is being held somewhat accountable. Just the volume of water being used is increasing. But on a, if you want to put it on a per unit basis, it's becoming more efficient at the data center. So. All right, so let's change gears to the power sector. Right. Or switch.
The power sector in and of itself has become more efficient over time. Right. I think we've got the data, we've looked, whether it be through EIA and other sources, and we're seeing just water demand, water withdrawals going down in the power sector. But that trend now looks to be changing, which I think we would argue is partly attributed to data centers and AI.
So are data centers actually triggering this reversal or is it something else?
[00:12:28] Speaker B: Yes. So data centers are definitely a large part of this. There's a couple other factors that are going into play on boosting power demand. But data centers, AI, it's a huge piece of it. And we actually as part of this research forecasted water or the power water demand, what it would look like if historical trends continued versus what that data center disruption would be. And it's really interesting. So our findings show that coal power plants, they're being delayed. That has a water related impact. There's new natural gas plants coming online that has a big water impact. And then we're also seeing the recommissioning of large scale nuclear, one of the most water intensive power generation types. So we actually are expected to see a boost of about 1.5% of the power sector water withdrawal through the end of the decade.
Put that in compound annual growth rate, it's about half a percent. So it's still not a lot of growth. But if you look at historic, the compound annual growth rate I believe for the past 10 years was like negative 3%.
So it's definitely a reversal of this trend. And so we're expected to see an actual uptick in that water water demand as it has been going down for quite some time now.
[00:13:52] Speaker A: Yeah, I think. And I think the other part to consider is just the volumes of water as you mentioned is already so high. You know, a Switch from negative 0.3 or negative 3% to 1.5 positive is pretty significant. Right. I mean it's a big shift in a large industry or a large heavily intensive water industry. So that's the right way to put it. So all right, so meeting this AI demand, it's forcing at the same time utilities rethink the power utilities to rethink their generation mix.
So which fuel pathway, natural gas, nuclear or continuing coal without deferments creates the most material water exposure. I think you may have already addressed that somewhat. Is there anything else to add there?
[00:14:43] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a great question. So I feel like you could argue that each of the three pose its own water exposures and risks. So keeping these coal power plants online, you have significant water quality risks that come up. It's expensive.
Your nuclear power plants, you have risks with reactors. But then like I mentioned, it is one of the largest water users on a gallons per kilowatt hour basis. So that's something that you definitely need to take into account as well. But then I think if I were to answer this with my opinion, it would be the, the new natural gas power plants. So it's just the sheer volume of new announcements, it's in relation to data centers is quite staggering. So there's about 250 natural gas power plants in the pipeline according to government sources. But nine or ten of those are specifically tied to data centers. And this isn't just a gigawatt or whatnot.
The total of it is very significant.
And with that it's a significant water requirement. So it's set to require these new. Just these 9 to 10 data center related natural gas power plants are set to require over 80 billion gallons of water a year. So it's a really significant footprint. We're seeing them deployed in key states like Texas, Virginia and Pennsylvania.
[00:16:11] Speaker A: Yeah, so, and I know there have been announcements. I mean, do any example companies come into mind on the power side? Just to give the listener some perspective about, you know, what power utilities are thinking?
[00:16:23] Speaker B: For sure. So Duke Energy comes to mind. Late last year they announced more coal power plant delays.
So that has its own water quality risks. To keep their plants online, they've already had significant water related violations in places like North Carolina in the past and they're spending millions of dollars on cleanup efforts.
But then they also announced recently that they're upping their capital investments 18% since just last November. So for their next five years they're going to spend over $100 billion.
So that's, that's significant. And a big chunk of that is for natural gas.
[00:17:05] Speaker A: Yeah, it'll be interesting. I mean there it's, that's the $64 million question as far as you know, because I think they're playing a little bit of a game too. Right. They're trying to figure out how much of this data center build out is real. They're obviously getting the requests for the power demand and how much of it is driven by pure developers or development versus actuality. And then there are arguments on the other side of the equation that say actually the power sector with transmission investments and such, there can be, it can be more efficient and how it's used and you know, deferring coal plants, I don't necessarily is also arguable. It has been argued that it's also not the cheapest power out there at this point. They're, they're better alternatives. So I don't know. A lot of people are going a lot of different ways and it's not entirely clear and it feels like there's a bit of a game of chicken happening.
When you look at the big tech versus power, then you roll in the transmission and I think to your point about all of the demand for the backlog for natural gas and I brought this up, I think even with you on this podcast, and that is if you don't have your turbines ordered, you're still looking at six to seven years until they're ready. So you know, it's a long, it's a long horizon or it's pretty far out there as far as anything that's announced today. So.
Well, what's the difference when we look at this? Because one of the, and I was actually looking at it just yesterday for something else and we do look at different geographies and how data centers in the power mix, how they're different by geography. Are, are we concentrating data center expansion in certain regions? Is it really, are they going where the power is cheap? But are they thinking, what are they thinking about when it comes to the water footprint and what does that mean long term?
[00:19:16] Speaker B: Great question. And just to plug the report a bit, we did rank all 50 states looking at what's their power and water attractiveness and we profiled the top 10.
So when this question, what immediately came to mind was Texas and Arizona. So power is relatively cheap. There's land availability, but there's also serious concerns and growing concerns about water stress. And we're seeing innovative strategies of how policymakers and local utilities are looking at this.
And something we've looked at on the refinery side a bit recently is Corpus Christisa their stage three drought. They've dates in the next year where they're thinking their water supply or part of their water supply is going to run down below threshold levels.
So this is pushing to look at alternative water supplies. So they looked at a large scale desal plant which the cost ballooned like crazy so they decided that wasn't feasible and now they're looking to long term water reuse contracts to supply these refineries.
Turning back to data centers. And on the on site point of it, they're using closed loop systems. Increasingly they're using non potable reclaimed water. So that's how they're addressing that. But then we're also seeing innovation happen on the power front. There also an uptick in closed loop cooling system. So instead of just that once through cooling, more efficient systems, different water reuse on site. But then also there's some examples like Arizona has a nuclear power plant that uses muni wastewater for cooling.
So yes, they are.
The bottom line is they're going where power is cheap and available and reliable. And then water is kind of the second concern.
They're looking how can they supply their water on site that they need. They're not even really thinking, I would think, that much about the power water question.
And then another question that comes to mind is, is the build out of the data centers and the new power sources happening too quick for the water infrastructure to keep pace?
So expanding reuse pipelines takes time.
So is that able to keep up with the pace of the new builds of power and data centers?
[00:21:48] Speaker A: Yeah, I think so. It's really interesting you say this because if they're going where the power is cheap. Right. So I think places like Tennessee, who's in Tennessee? Is that XAI or whatever they call it, they're going to Tennessee, Tennessee Valley Authority, going to Texas, there's plenty of natural gas.
And, and I know our colleague Ethan Edwards, he was at Was it NARUC earlier this week and with utility commissioners and such, and they were talking about where's the pushback on data centers or what is being used, if that's the right way to put it. And if you had to rank them, the number one thing that the utility commissioners were bringing up was water, was water use. Right. That was the, the lever that the public is using. Fair. Not fair. Right. Whereas that's not, that's a, for the, for the data center developers.
That's, I don't want to say an afterthought that's not necessarily entirely fair, but it's, it's a lower priority than, than the power side of the equation. So I thought that was interesting. I'm going to kind of throw one out to you and see what you think because you're talking a little bit about Texas and we're hearing about some big data center build outs. Texas, particularly West Texas, and our colleague Sophie Washington is big into produce water for hydraulic fracturing.
How real is it?
Is there potential for using produced water or other, say, water byproducts from other industries, reclaimed, produced or processed water for data centers. Is that. How real is that?
[00:23:33] Speaker B: That's a great question. I feel like it's still early stages looking at feasibility.
Something that we have seen with data center companies is they have a lot of capital, so they are investing in different startups and different companies. Like we've talked on this podcast a couple of times about Fido tech and like leak detection. And so they're investing in different, different softwares and hardware to improve water efficiency. So if it makes sense, it is a bit more risky because of just the quality level of that water. And you still, if you're going to run it through your cooling system, you don't want it to corrode your pipes and have scaling happen and all these things. So I think time will tell on this one. There is some interest in, in some early adoption, but definitely some hesitancy on that one.
[00:24:28] Speaker A: Yeah, I guess. My. And I'm just curious to see what you think because my thoughts are, is it very site specific? Right. You know, and that being said, there's plenty of produced water that comes out of the Marcellus Shale or the Appalachia Basin and West Virginia, Pennsylvania, Ohio region, and it's close. That's close to the epicenter of it all, Loudoun county, if that is in fact the epicenter of data center build out. West Texas feels a bit more remote.
Maybe easier to build transmission out there just because Texas is open for business, as they say. I don't know. I'm trying to kind of get, you know, I think on paper it makes sense. Right. We should be doing things like that, leveraging byproducts and being just as we started off, being more efficient in our water usage, water supplies.
But I'm not sure how long term that play is.
So as you said, early stages. All right. Well, for client's sake, we've been talking about the market more broadly and what's happening, what's driving it, what's shaping it. When we look at the market opportunities, how should we think about these opportunities going forward? On site at the data center, off site at the power plant, should they be talking to the municipalities or. There are other things.
What's your position on that?
[00:25:49] Speaker B: That's a great question. So there's multiple different touch points where the opportunities are occurring. So you mentioned at the data center, there's definitely a hardware play there with pipes, pumps, valves that you need for the cooling system. There's also treatment that's needed whether it's an RO system, UV disinfection, filtration. So there's opportunities at the data center, big opportunity and I would say one of the biggest is at the utility. So a data center comes to town and there's a lot of money being invested in the utility to upgrade its treatment system, expand capacities, build out its reuse system, deploy leak detections like I've mentioned to meet some of their sustainability efforts with water use offsets.
So we see millions and millions of dollars going to the utility and that's definitely an opportunity that a water solution provider could capitalize on. Engineering firms are definitely capitalizing on.
And then much to this report it touches on the power plant and an opportunity we see is on the water supply side.
So these plants require a lot of, a lot of water. Especially if they're building in areas that don't have a large water body or have water supply concerns, are they going to go to reuse?
I know essential utilities, they invested over 20 million in a water treatment plant and that's to supply the data center and the power gen facility.
So there is also that treatment play because especially if we're doing these closed loop systems, you need improved water quality, coal, power plants being kept in line. You have remediation opportunities that exist and you have to keep these plants in compliance.
Then one last point.
I think the key takeaways, there's a lot of opportunities but also we're seeing at the semiconductor level the US had this big boost in domestic manufacturing, part of the CHIPS act and now we're having this increased demand for advanced chips as part of data centers. There's a big opportunity there for ultra pure water, your supply and your treatment and also water recovery facilities. So there's that hardware play, equipment play and also a service play.
[00:28:10] Speaker A: Yeah, it's like a daisy chain. It's all connected in one way or another. And so I'm going to see if I can sort of summarize this. So at the municipality I think utilities, they need help from more likely engineering firms that they're already working with in some cases to figure out, you know, do they need more capacity, they need to build that out, should they implement, reuse, what else can they do?
So I think the other thing you mentioned, Fidotech and there are other companies that do it too. But I think you know, more broadly Speaking in the U.S. leakage rates are what, 15, 16%, 17%. I don't remember what our latest number was from our report but you get non revenue water levels or Water losses at about 17% and I think the total of that is about $6.2 billion. That'll go down the drain or lost every year in the U.S. based on our market sizing. So those are real dollars. Right. And if you go down to the local utility, if they can address leakage, that may help solve part of the problem for adding data center capacity or demand to their network. So that's the muni side. The on site piece is like you said, there's cooling, there's monitoring and so forth and chemical treatment, RO systems. And some of this is being deployed by companies like Ecolab for instance. I think we brought them up before. They're a good example of a company that is really targeting this market. And I think their public filings, their 10Ks, 10Qs show that they're actually doing really well in this then the power system. And I think it's interesting because it wasn't that long ago where we were looking at the power sector and saying, wow, all right, water demand is going down. There's this transition towards renewables which doesn't use a lot of water. I think that's pretty obvious.
We're seeing that in Europe significantly. I think there's a real transition there for a number of reasons.
But the power sector was becoming, I don't want to say less attractive to the water sector.
I think the players that are in it, they know what they're doing, they have their relationships. But now it's almost been upended to some extent. Right now it's power demand is, is climbing. There's new fossil fuel capacity going online or being planned for. So that's changing. And then I appreciate your last point. Sort of the supply chain, right.
I feel like the data center boom over the past, let's say 12 to 18 months, it's almost superseded the ramp up or the interest in semiconductors. Right. And I think that's because I feel like that is a bit less frenetic. These are large gold plated facilities that are happening, you know, multibillion dollar facilities and wastewater treatment plants. So these facilities are a billion dollars. So like I said, they've been overshadowed by what's happening there, but nonetheless an opportunity. So super interesting.
One last question for you and this is the 64, this is the real $64 million question for those who are old enough to know what a $64 million question is.
Do data centers use a lot of water?
[00:31:36] Speaker B: That is a great question. And every time I get asked this I'm like, it depends. But so if you talk about the only the on site water use, the short answer is no. Like in comparison with other industries like power gen oil and gas extraction, food manufacturing, even paper mills. Like no. As a whole it doesn't use as much water as they do.
However you can build out their water footprint a bit. So if you take into account the indirect water use, you boost it by 72% of their water footprint. So that that grows significantly.
But something in I think this is why it gets so much media attention is a single data center can use a lot of water in a community.
So compared to other facilities like just a regular commercial building.
So some data centers use a lot of water, some don't.
We have our zero water consumption data centers.
Data centers can rely on outside air for most of their cooling, but then you do have these larger scale cloud hyperscalers and they use evaporative cooling and they burn through water. So one of Google's data centers out in Iowa used like 1.4 billion gallons of water in 2020 for. So that's really significant.
Digital realty in Arizona, they have a big data center, they're a top water user.
I believe they spent a quarter of a million dollars last year on their water supply bill. But then you put this into account in Chandler on what's intel spending on their water bill. It's like 6.4 million.
So they're definitely using a lot less water than intel, but it's still a top water user and insignificant for the community and for planning purposes.
[00:33:26] Speaker A: All right, so if it depends, it depends on the community, what share of the water pie does it take? Because I think the flip side of this, and this is what could be argued is this is great for municipal utilities, it gives them a long term supply contract to one good question, but I'll just say it reliable demand for their product which is treated water. So it could be good for a community. Right. I've talked to a number of different people who were arguing yeah, this is great, water is being held up as the boogeyman. But that's actually not in fact the case. And I'm not here to advocate one way or the other. I think what we're trying to do is kind of tell the first story about all right on site. No, not really.
You account for power and if you're in the middle of Utah or Nevada and there's not a lot of water available, are there questions about the long term availability of water? Because I think the. This is. Now I'm going to put my cynical hat on Is these data centers or just the industry as a whole, their life cycle or their, their planning for planning purposes is not as long as that of the community itself. So let's talk about Arizona. Right. You mentioned them earlier.
And so Arizona. Now if you're, you know, putting in a facility or a community, you've got to have a 100 year water supply.
One, I would argue 100 years is not that long. I mean, I've lived more than half of that in my lifetime. So it's not that long.
That's one aspect of it. The other is the industry or the data center. I think they're only planning 10 to 20 years, let's say. And so they're going to do whatever they want for 20 years. They don't care about the remaining 80.
Right. I think that's not in their best interest. Their best interest is in that of the shareholders and whoever their investors are, not the community.
And I think this is happening so fast that I don't think the communities know what to do. And I think that's the resistance. It's probably less about. They're not kind of sticking their, you know, nose up at a revenue opportunity. I think they're thinking long term because there are concerns not just about the Colorado River, I think there are real concerns about groundwater availability depending on where you are as well. Am I off base here?
[00:36:01] Speaker B: No, not at all. I've even as part of this report and just ongoing research, we talk to data center companies a lot and one of the questions I had is cooling tech is evolving so quickly. Like just a couple years ago, liquid cooling really wasn't that high adopted and now it's like going to be the go to for these AI applications. So I asked like, is it worth it for a big tech company to deploy these millions of dollars to upgrade the municipal water system to meet capacity if maybe in 5, 10 years they upgrade their cooling system and they no longer need this water supply, they'll need it for fire suppression and stuff like that. But they said, yeah, it makes sense financially for now. So it's worth it for these utilities to, to capitalize on this, this money that's coming their way.
[00:36:51] Speaker A: Yeah, no, because it's a race, right? I mean that's, it's an arms race and that's where we are. So I think it's super interesting and that's why I think everybody on all fronts is nervous and you know, kind of walking on eggshells because they don't know and they don't want to make the Wrong decision. And honestly that's why, I mean as you mentioned, you know, one opportunity is at the municipal utility. I think what did our numbers show? That is a 95% of data center water supply comes from municipal utilities.
[00:37:25] Speaker B: Yeah, 95 to 97%.
[00:37:28] Speaker A: Yeah. So it's pretty significant. So that's why there's an opportunity there. There are 50,000 drinking water systems in the US and so that's an opportunity. And I would say for program managers and engineering firms, should I say, because these utilities are under resourced, they're still trying to figure out their basic business, like I mentioned, non revenue water, let alone, you know, a new, you know, giant data center, hyperscale data center coming to their community. They want it provide some near term jobs.
So. All right, anything else to add before I set you free for the, for the long weekend?
[00:38:08] Speaker B: I think that that's all. I appreciate you having me on.
[00:38:11] Speaker A: All right, well thanks Amber. Thanks Amain for this. Lots of really interesting research. I know this is off your plate. I know you've.
We went through a planning discussion at AIR too. Your plate is fully loaded. So I'm not going to ask you what you're working on because it seems like a bottomless pit of research that you have to do. But thanks for taking the time. Thanks for coming in early and have a great, great President's Day weekend.
[00:38:39] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:38:40] Speaker A: Cheers.
All right, that's the conversation I've had with Amber feels like a million times over the past couple months, maybe even over the past couple years because we talk a lot about data centers. It is the topic du jour in the U.S. i think it actually comes up in Europe as well. Although the energy and power discussion is definitely different in Europe, partly because energy prices are so much higher. They're five times higher than what they are in the U.S. they don't have the supplies. They are transitioning towards renewables, a significant share of the power footprint being renewables.
So it's a different equation there and there is more top down policy influencing development as happens in Europe. In the US it's Katy bar the door. Whatever happens, happens. And that's the way it goes. So. Well, thanks to Amber for jumping on. I think it's an interesting topic and if anybody has any questions about it, she is the go to person of Bluefield Research when it comes to data centers.
Before we sign off, I want to recognize the team that makes these conversations possible. Mike Gaylor, Ryan Sullivan, Kelly Talbott, Steph Aldock. Without them, this podcast and all the others, 136 more of them wouldn't happen. They wouldn't even get off my desk. If you're in Boston, Barcelona, New York, Chicago, San Francisco, or Paris, Reach out. We love to connect in person.
It makes life easy for us and hopefully interesting for you.
If you have ideas for topics you want us to tackle, be on the lookout for some messages from me. I've got a couple ideas that I'm cooking up that is going to get right at your questions. But in the near term, reach out to us@water expertsluefieldresearch.com because this podcast is for you.
This podcast these water industry insights brought to you by Bluefield Research. To learn more about us, we
[email protected] that's where you can also learn more about Amber's recent research on data centers and the power sector.
Till next time, be well, be safe, and take care.
