Is the Data Center Water Problem Fake?

[00:00:00] Speaker A: 341. That's how many data centers Texas has asked to report their water usage since 2023. This year, only 17% answered. And the penalty for staying silent? It's just a $500 fine. And that's for an industry spending hundreds of billions of dollars on infrastructure investments this year alone. But the state isn't sitting still. Texas Governor Greg Abbott just ordered utilities to make sure data center infrastructure costs don't land on regular customer bills. He's pushing data centers to adopt water reuse systems. And that's happening. But none of this really works if nobody actually knows what these facilities are using in the first place. Texas is on track to Paso. Virginia is the largest data center market in the country. So the real question isn't how much water, it's which communities are prepared and which might be caught flat footed. I am Reece Tisdol and this is the Future of Water in which you talk about all the ways which companies, utilities and people are addressing the challenges and opportunities in water. This is episode 147 and I'm pretty sure it's going to be a good one. That's because today I'm going to be joined by Amber Walsh and Zineb Momen. We're going to talk data centers, water usage, or maybe lack thereof, and the market size and opportunities for water companies going forward. There's a lot to unpack between what's happening in Europe and the U.S. but that's why I've asked Amber and Zineb join in the conversation. So let's get to that conversation and see if we can learn a little bit more. All right, so I'm joined here by Zineb Moman and Amber Walsh. Amber, Zineb, how are things? Start with you, Zineb. Where are you and what's going on? [00:01:56] Speaker B: Good afternoon, Luis, from the other side of the ocean. We are actually now at the Basela office enjoying as always, the summer vibes and very happy to be with you this morning to talk data centers. [00:02:09] Speaker A: Nice. Yeah. And in fact, I will see you, I guess tomorrow because I'm flying to Barcelona tonight and then I'll join in the fun of the heat dome. Although I'm not gonna lie, it's pretty hot here in Boston, Amber, which is where you are. So what's going on with you? You're just off the back end of a fourth of July holiday. So what's up? [00:02:30] Speaker C: Not much. How are things with you? [00:02:32] Speaker A: Oh, things are good, you know, just doing this and that. Good. Fourth weekend. We've got The World cup going Zinev, you've got Morocco still in it. That was exciting game. [00:02:44] Speaker B: I mean, we were expecting duone against Canada, but I'm not sure about France. [00:02:50] Speaker A: So as I told my son last night, now it starts getting real for everybody. All right, well, let's get into it. We didn't come here to talk about the World Cup. Let's talk about data centers. So both of you are sort of fairly well entrenched in this sector. Put out some recent analysis, both in Europe as well as in the US Although in different forms. So let's just step back, I think, because it's important. There's so much noise being shared about AI data centers. So why are we even talking about data centers on a water podcast? So why don't we start with you, Amber? [00:03:30] Speaker C: Yeah, that's a great question and I'd rephrase it. Why are we talking about data centers again? Because we've had a couple of chats about data centers. But it is a great question because data center water usage is ranked pretty low compared to other industries. So it's not as much a volume conversation. But it's our job to figure out what are the real opportunities worth discussing. Both in the US and globally. We see water companies like your Veolias and Ecolabs, they're calling data centers out as a key growth market. So trying to figure out what that opportunity actually is. And the industry is growing fast. We're seeing really high capex from big tech, huge announcements, hundreds of billions of dollars, greenfield builds, phased constructions. So something worth calling out is the census bureau. They put out construction, put in place values in data centers surpassed 5 billion in May. So that's up 200% since 2023. So it's definitely still growing. It's a huge market. The water piece does get complicated. As we've discussed on this podcast, companies are choosing between water based or air based cooling hybrid approaches. So it really isn't a one size fits all. And. And we're diving into to figure out what the real opportunity is. [00:05:06] Speaker A: All right, no, I think that's super helpful. And Sineb, what about you? What's. When you look at it from the Europe side of the. Of the equation. [00:05:13] Speaker B: Yeah, from the European side there are like few different angles because I mean here in the US big money burning. We got like over 6 billion plant love gigawatt corridors in Poland, solar powered in Iberia. Especially here, talking about mega compasses in Portugal, it's around 1 gigawatt, which is huge. If you compare it to other plant projects over the last five years, but also sold projects. And that's the flip side. And we got, for instance, Microsoft side in the Netherlands got public scarcity over fresh water use. We got Dublin, one of the five Club D hubs that is under a de facto moratorium. So the bottom line is the footprint is small on pa, but perception is local. It's about the tower next to door, not only the continental total and one very interesting and shifting aspect. Last year and since May, European regulators now require power use efficiency and water use efficiency reporting for operators above 500 kilowatts. So efficiency now is an entry ticket. Perception problem becomes a permitting problem. And a permitting problem is opening the water business. [00:06:34] Speaker A: All right, so both of you said that the water footprint, at least on site's not huge. But let's pull on the thread a little bit further. What are the key areas or issues that we're watching for in the data center? So what are clients looking for? What are we sharing with them? What about you, Amber? [00:06:51] Speaker C: Yeah, so we've broken it into three pillars. So definitely on site. What's happening? What's the water use? What's the cooling adoption, treatment tech, storage equipment? So what's happening on site? But then we also zoom out and look at power. So what's that? Indirect water usage from data centers. But also how is the data center disruption impacting that power sector with new natural gas plants and delayed coal retirements? So I believe last time I was on the pod, that's what we talked about. And then we are also looking at this third pillar. How is it impacting the water utilities? So the municipal landscape. [00:07:35] Speaker A: Yeah, the last part's really interesting. And can we say it's the same in Europe? Zineb, are we looking at it similarly? [00:07:41] Speaker B: More or less is similar. We unpacked three layers. So the first one on site water use with all equipment that comes with it. We got the cooling systems plus the pre treatment trains that comes with them as well. Then we got the very interesting aspects, which is the power implications since it's roughly around 75% of the water footprint. And then we got one very interesting and different aspect from us, which is the European market structure. So Europe is not one single market, but we classify it under four different archetypes that we can come back to this point later. [00:08:17] Speaker A: Okay, yeah, I want to follow up on that. That's interesting. And so one of the reasons this came up, we've been talking about data centers, but someone had sent me an article about whether the AI water Issue was fake. Right? And they were asking for my comments and so thought we'd take some time now just to kind of talk about the article, what it, what it means, and I can share this in my thread as well. But is the AI water, is it fake? I mean, is this right? What do you, what do you think, Amber? [00:08:47] Speaker C: Yeah, that's a, a great question. And as I mentioned initially, the water use, total water use is fairly low. So both here in the US also globally. But the word fake really ignores that water infrastructure issue and how water infrastructure gets planned and financed at the local level, not nationally or globally. So one hypersale customer like a Google can really impact a system almost overnight. So even if annual water use is low, these utilities, they do have to plan for peak demand, especially if we're using seasonal cooling techs. So when you have the hottest days, that's when they're using the most water. And that can cause a host of planning challenges. One example is Meta's Texas Data center in Fort Worth. It withdrew about 80 million gallons in 2024. So a lot of water, but in, in the general scheme of things, like not, not a ton, ton, and about 60% of that was just in the summer, so June through August, that really can complicate planning. And, and also to throw another wrinkle into it, it really depends where you are. So if we're talking Texas, Arizona, that's a very different water conversation than water abundance states. So I would not say that the, the problem is fake, but it is how you have to look at it. [00:10:21] Speaker A: So what would you say the real problem is? Because it feels like it's in the news every day. [00:10:28] Speaker C: Definitely. And I would say the real problem is what's happening with the water utilities and if they're ready for data center development. And it's really important how utilities protect themselves, how they can actually take this as an opportunity to benefit when a data center comes to town. So it's an interesting dynamic because you have a fast, capital intensive industry really meeting a slow, underfunded municipal system. And we looked at the top data center companies and about 99% of their water was withdrawn from municipal systems. So it's really important that utilities are planning ahead, they're planning for worst case. So we're seeing a ton of project announcements, but not all those are going to happen. So we were seeing a lot of phantom data centers, canceled projects. We're really, we talk about in the report a push for cost share agreements that push that responsibility, the financing responsibility, onto the data center. Company for infrastructure upgrades and then also talking water rights in certain parts of the country. So if needed can the data center company buy and then transfer the water rights? So really I would say the real problem is this utility piece of it and education and understanding. [00:11:53] Speaker A: And I think part of that is because everything is moving so fast. Right. We've talked a bit about the pace of infrastructure development at the utility level, but then big tech as I would call it, is moving so fast, faster than probably anybody ever expected. So you mentioned it as a local challenge. Are there other considerations? I think both of you have mentioned it as local. There are other considerations to mention under the claim that data center water problems are fake. [00:12:24] Speaker C: Definitely. So there's a, there's a couple things that come to mind but one thing I would definitely call out is company strategy. So there's been real significant media backlash, community backlash over the water consumption and water use of these sites. So companies are handling that differently. So some are going towards all in on water free cooling methods. Some companies are qts Cyrus one so they're using air cooling, air cooled chillers, closed loop. So there's no real ongoing water source in their new builds. However it is worth calling out. We mentioned those three pillars we talked about power that can sometimes just shift the burden upstream to the power sector and power is by far the largest industrial water user. So that's a consideration that they need to take into account. Also although your system, your cooling system is water free cooling, you still are going to need water during construction for earth moving and whatnot. But getting back to company strategy, we're also seeing some companies like your Googles in aws. They're weighing the options between or the trade offs between water and power and where it makes sense. They're sticking with water based cooling so there's definitely been improved efficiencies but they're still really sticking with that. We saw Google just last week or the week before put out their 2026 sustainability report. We saw water use continues to rise. I believe it was 11 billion gallons in 2024. Now it's almost 15 billion gallons for 2025. So it's pretty significant. Data centers make up over 90% of that disclosure. And also to this isn't just happening in the U.S. google was talking about. They responded to the EU directive about weighing water and power together in its guidance, not separately. So the real bottom line is no industry standard means mixed signals. Again, just getting at total water use isn't the real issue, but it's the local impact. Okay, what's the company's decision? What's the water stress in the area? What's the infrastructure situation? So it's lots of different variables. [00:14:54] Speaker A: Okay, so Zineb, let's change gears a little bit. Let's look at Europe and just for the listeners, the article that we're referring to, it's called the AI water issue is fake. It's by Andy Masley. Like I said, this was forwarded to me. It's actually an article that came out in October 2025. So it's a little bit old. But at the same time I think the person sending this on to me was interested in our feedback. So let's talk about Europe. Zineb, so how would you respond to the claim that data center water problem is fake? [00:15:29] Speaker B: Well, breathe the articles. Math checks out, but it misses where the real story is in Europe because nationally speaking, he is right. Direct water use for Europe at least is around 133 billion liter in 2026. But we do expect that to drop by a third in the next decade. Why? Because the efficiencies outpacing capacity growth. But the entire footprint, mostly from the grind, is around 75% of that total. And it is still climbing with the capacity. And because the buildings get thriftier, the grid does not. And personally speaking, one shot branch is around 2 millimeter of water total which is only 0.3 milliliter of that inside the data center itself. So nobody's shower is at risk. [00:16:25] Speaker A: All right, so the math checks out like you said. But where does it fall apart? [00:16:31] Speaker B: Well, locally the American freeman breaks down completely. Let's take Ireland as an example back to 2022. 18% from the national electricity in Ireland was going to the data centers. So now because of that they are under amoratorium on a new grid connection. For example, another example from the flab d is Amsterdam that froze plan. And we got like one weird example of a pushback because of fresh water use is the Microsoft side in the Netherlands in the region of Viringer Meer. So it's a great bottleneck, yes, but it ripples into the water and the question is how? So if you are moving projects from big cities into smaller towns with less infrastructure, you have more water stories. Let's picture a mega campus next to a town or whose treatment plant is around 10,000 population equivalents. You're going to add the facility construction footprints, you're going to add the workforce water footprint, you're going to add the indirect water footprint. And combining all of this, this is a Real pressure. And since as we mentioned before last year, operators above 500kW they must report and the energy use efficiency and the water use efficiency to the European database. So sub permitting requirement. Now the real question isn't the ton number is whether the local system is ready and is whether the operator can prove it. And the gap is where the market opens up. [00:18:13] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think, Amber, that's where your recent report really gets at is the utility level. So I think there's alignment there as far as, you know, the speed of development. And then is the existing infrastructure ready? I mean, I think your point znab about Ireland, right. They weren't ready for this. And so if they're 18% of national electricity back in 2022 and it ramps up, that's why there's a moratorium, so to speak. So let's shift gears a little bit. Let's just talk about kind of the big differences between the US and Europe while I've got you both sort of on the horn. So Amber, let's talk broadly speaking. What are we seeing in the US You've been on this podcast a number of times. Where do we stand today in July 2026? [00:18:59] Speaker C: Great question. So we're definitely seeing developments happen and they're happening in faster development cycles. However, as we see all the time in the news, they are running up against grid connection challenges. So it's this mix between okay, how fast can these data centers be developed but then also connect to the grid. There is also some examples of behind the meter where they're having power gen on site. How big is that that going to be is definitely something we're watching and seeing because that will impact the water footprint of a site. But that's definitely a trend we're seeing with the meeting of data centers in the grid. And then also we're seeing larger campuses so they just keep on growing in size, in capacity, being constructed in multiple phases. And something with talking to utilities is this phased approach can really impact discharges because of different pre commissioning flushes and it can really create planning challenges on the utility side. And then lastly, a key takeaway from what we're seeing in the US from this utility research is the adoption of reclaimed wastewater. So we're really seeing Loudon Water as a leader in their reclaimed system for data centers. Makes sense because Northern Virginia is a huge data center hub. We're still seeing tens of millions going towards expanding the system. We're also seeing some more decentralized approaches like your AWS and Fiolia's partnership that was announced down south. So definitely just increasing adoption of reclaimed wastewater. [00:20:51] Speaker A: All right, Zanab, let's go to you. But I have two questions for you. One, how does it differ in the in Europe? And then my sort of accompanying question is what is Flap D? You've mentioned it several times. And just for the I say us heavy listeners, what does Flap D mean? I'll start with that. [00:21:13] Speaker B: Sure. Okay, let's start by what is plabd? PLABD is the core data center hubs in Europe and it's a grouping of five countries. It's a prank for London, Amsterdam, Paris and Dublin. And by the way, this is hosting more than a half of the capacity of data centers which back to 2020 was mostly colocation issues. But now this planification is shifting to mostly mega campuses and hyperscales. So regards Coloc are still leaning on legacy water infrastructure. In some cases they are self supplied. But we do got a lot of new plant projects with the bigger capacity that require huge amount of water and then more electricity. We got on this strategy side there is like a huge difference because the utilities need to de risk their water sourcing or through doing more use reclaimed water. And one example is the Veolia project with Amazon that is moving from a pilot to a playbook. And we got the KPI as well reporting like we got stricter rules, mandatory water use efficiency reporting. We got Germany power efficiency rules that should be under 1.2 for new builds. So now water efficiency is a permitting condition. It's not a marketing line for sure. We got a migration wave from the Flap D for many reasons. First one is the grid congestion. [00:22:45] Speaker C: Okay. [00:22:45] Speaker B: And you're going to of course take advantage of the Nordics because you can take, you can have free air cooling. So it's a free. So you're going to do this. So we got another new emerging markets in Spain, Italy, Poland, the Nordics that is adding around 1.7 billion incremental spend through 2036. And by the way, this is the fastest growth on the continent. We got water, energy and carbon are in one conversation. Grid connection queues stretch from seven to 10 years in the core Flap D. So the water strategy is set by the power strategy. And in the bottom line I would say that U.S. conversation often starts with the capacity, but the European one is with the efficiency. [00:23:35] Speaker A: I think that's a really good point. I think that's a huge difference. And maybe the takeaway from both your comments right there is a real divide. So when we look at the research you guys have put out recently, what surprised you most? Amber, why don't we start with you? [00:23:53] Speaker C: Yeah. So something that really surprised me just was the different experiences utility had with data center development. So through this report we interviewed with a bunch of utilities and there's huge differences with cost share agreements, who pays for what. Some utilities really decided that it was in their best interest to pay through rates and the data center just benefited. And there's other cases where the data centers is funding nearly 100% of the project. So very different cost share agreements, different demands in terms of infrastructure upgrades, asset ownership. So there's definitely examples when data center will build something, fund it, but then transfer ownership to the utility because they don't want to be dealing with the management of it. Differences in water sourcing, decisions around water rights and even just transparency. So if a data center is coming online today, they've been talking to the utility for quite some time, planning, doing projects that are needed to get the, the utility up to speed. And just what they're disclosing, it does vary company to company based on okay, how much water we expected and, and that can really impact visibility and planning on the utility part. So definitely just I was shocked by the different experiences that these utilities had. [00:25:31] Speaker A: Nice. All right, Zineb, what about you? [00:25:34] Speaker B: That's a very good question and I have a list of points, but let me give you a couple of points. So what surprised me the most first is the how is the European market? It's not a one single market. We got like four different archetypes. Let me give you like few examples. Let's take the Nordics for example. You got to do free air coding, they got clean power initiatives, they have sustainability centers, early adoption of smart monitoring, a lot of nature based solution. So entry favor innovation lead. If you take it against the flop D that runs through a really complicated regulatory framework. You got up style cycling, you got engineering, shaping specifications. So you're going to lead with compliance and not efficiency. And it's not a greenfield market anymore. And then you got to the emerging one as I mentioned should Spain, Poland or Italy. So here you got a lot of political and public pressure over the technology specification and we got a lot of public partnerships model. So the last one I would say is the remaining countries that we could name territories. It's less mature markets and access through EPC contractors. One other interesting aspect and that shocked me was on the transparency. So back in 2020, Texas Water Development Board survey showed that water sold to Google more than tripled in three years. By three years I mean from 2021 to 2023. But here is where it's become interesting that reporting came after the fact, not a step forward planning tied to the development itself. So sustainability targets only showed up after public pushback. And the water point is bigger than just a direct use. So it's a cooling, it's in direct water, it's a workforce, It's a construction, etc. What surprised me again comparing to other industrial segments is the business model itself because in most water infrastructure how you make money capex fills the asset space and apex causes this is not the case of these assigners because the shift to liquid choline compressed the OPEX margin. Maybe you can do a little bit of reverse osmosis upfront but not ongoing treatment of dirty effluents. So there is less room I would say here for companies who business model only depends on the OPEX side. [00:28:11] Speaker A: Interesting. Oh, I like that one. So when we look all right, that's sort of where we are. What surprised you when we look ahead five years, you know, for the listeners. Back to you Amber. What should listeners look out for? [00:28:27] Speaker C: Definitely I would say we're and we're definitely keeping tabs on all these things is how are cooling technologies evolving? We're so used to an industrial with other industry segments that's like if you're looking at paper manufacturing, they've used the same tech for the past 100 years in a mill whereas data centers really have been flexible and we're seeing cooling technologies evolve in real time. So definitely looking at the adoption rates of different cooling techs. Also I mentioned earlier the use of non potable reclaimed sources. So that's definitely growing. How much it grows is something we're definitely keeping an eye on. How are utilities benefiting from this? Is this development so looking at these cost share agreements and then also something that has come out of this is partnerships between water solution providers and your data center companies. So things like Ecolab partnering with digital Realty, Veolia with aws. So tracking what that water piece of it looks like on the data center growth side of things. [00:29:44] Speaker A: All right. And okay Zineb, what about you? Five years. What does it look like? [00:29:48] Speaker B: I mean strategically talking, if you are planning a lot of strategy long term you need both sides. You need the CAPEX and the opex. So capex to get in and OPEX to stay in. Integrators outsource the hardware part. Solution providers can handle the reverse osmosis or the chemical dosing and I mean Apex here is lighter than heavy industries because you're gonna just replace maybe some membranes, do some UV treatments for bacteria control. It's smaller, yes, but it's still the urine. I would definitely watch the liquid cooling consolidation and we saw early it is happening with cross industry acquisition Ecolab and cool it we got torque densities that are jumping from 40 to 120 kilowatts. And this is like canceling somehow the air cooling and opening the space for more liquid cooling. We saw a lot of merging and acquisition in that sense as well. And this is reshuffling the map. Adoptions compress from 5, 7 years now to only 2 years. So if you are thinking to selling something to ADESA Sanders, you got to use window left to position. [00:31:04] Speaker A: All right, so if I'm gonna throw one last question out at you guys. So if listeners could remember one thing from today's conversation, what would it be? [00:31:17] Speaker C: I'll, I'll start out here. I definitely would would say that the water problem isn't fake. It just isn't about total water use as much as it is about the impact on the water system. [00:31:31] Speaker A: Oh, quick and dirty. Zineb, what about you? [00:31:33] Speaker B: I got four points. So first these are centers drinks the town's water. Second, most of the footprints is sitting upstream the value chain. It's where the indirect water use is happening and on the ship production as well. The real question is whether the local system was ready to support this capacity. And the final point, we need need to judge the projects by its water use efficiency, water source and its cost share deal with utility not only by the size of the headline numbers. [00:32:12] Speaker A: Fantastic. All right, so I like that there are a couple really good takeaways from there. Both that one I think are more practical or realistic when you look at it. But also there is slightly a divide between the US and Europe markets and I think that's one of the reasons we do different reports and look at this differently. So I really appreciate the time you guys have put into this. Before I let you guys go, I'm going to ask my I think more often than not regular question. What are you working on now or what's coming next? Zinev, why don't we start with you. [00:32:47] Speaker B: I'm working on updating our industrial forecast that we did last year in Europe. So I'm looking forward to tracking all the shifts that happened last year and reflect this in our future research. [00:32:59] Speaker A: I suspect that data centers, the high tech sector is probably the fastest growing among those. [00:33:07] Speaker B: Yes, definitely that was shifting like in the last three months when I was working on these reports, I feel like the markets already shift. So we need probably another update to this. So we're looking forward incorporating those changes into the last reports and the new sections. [00:33:22] Speaker A: Excellent. All right, Amber, what about you? [00:33:24] Speaker C: Similar to Zineb, working on updating the US and Canada industrial forecast as well as we have our US Industrial facility data coming out soon. So that will be exciting. [00:33:37] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that industrial facility data is really interesting. Like I've said before, that's the playing field within industries in the U.S. you know, where are the systems, where are the facilities and you know, where's the growth year over year. So. All right, with that being said, so I'll just let you guys go. So you know, Zanab, I'll see you tomorrow. But good luck with the Morocco team. Hopefully everybody's excited. [00:34:02] Speaker B: Thank you and thanks for having me. [00:34:03] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And Amber, we will catch up soon. [00:34:08] Speaker C: Sounds good. Thank you. [00:34:09] Speaker A: All right, guys, take care. Thanks. All right. That was fantastic to have them on. Like I said, just reinforcing the AI water issue is fake was an article. It's about on the national, local and personal level that someone put out in 2025 and that sparked some of the conversation we had today. So thanks to Emeren Zineb for participating and sharing their insights. They've got some in depth expertise, particularly in their respective regions, whether it be Europe as Well as the U.S. so as we wrap that up, let's talk about what caught my eye this past week. Well, the EPA has just made it cheaper to access $11 billion in water infrastructure financing. And that move exposes exactly what's broken about how the money is getting used or at least partly. So the EPA is waiving WIFIA's fees for small communities. So they're cutting about $180,000 in upfront costs to enable these communities to tap the program. So I thought this was really interesting. Maybe it's a signal of where federal funding is going or really the WIFIA program because it seems to have been underutilized because of alternative sources. We're about to release some in depth analysis of federal funding. And so three things that stand out to me when I read this news that came out last week. First, WIFIA really doesn't have a supply problem, it has a demand problem. So loan activity has been declining since 2021. That's because average loan runs about 155 million. That's not built for small communities. So I think that's part of the problem. I think We've at Bluefield have always stated that wifia, these are large gold plated projects financed by the program, maybe that politicians like it in contrast to things like state revolving funds. So second, while this may fix access, it doesn't really fix the structure of the problem. 21 states according to our analysis have never received a WIFIA loan. So while California takes up nearly a third of the total, waiving the fees helps, but it doesn't really address the imbalance. And then lastly, this is a bigger signal policy shifting from how much we can allocate to how do we actually get the capital deployed. That matters more given that the federal share of water infrastructure spending is only around 4% of the total. So it's declined dramatically from 33% in the late 70s to 4% today. And WIFIA is just an indication of this. So it's not about new money, it's about removing the friction. And this is not just a WIFIA problem, it's a state revolving friend problem as well an IIJA problem. So reducing this friction might be the fastest lever to move capital into parts of the water sector that need it the most. So that's what caught my eye this past week. Be on the lookout for some analysis from Bluefield looking at different federal programs and what the trends are and what it means. So with that being said, that's episode 147. And as always, say increasingly there's no better time to be in the water business. Many thanks to Mike Geller, Ryan Sullivan, Steph Alldot, Kelly Talbott and all the Bluefield team of water experts like Amber Walsh and Zineb Momin who just jumped on this conversation. So none of this happens without them. They know what to say and they know how to get the information onto your mixed set of devices. As always, if you've got topics you want us to dig into, reach out to [email protected] we do read them, we look at them, we take them all into account for our conversations and planning. And this is the future of water from Bluefield research. Until we talk again, be well, be safe and take care.