[00:00:00] Speaker A: And I think, again, taking into account the pressures that climate change is putting on municipal utilities, but also the infrastructure, I think we are likely going to see more and more performance based contracts.
[00:00:21] Speaker B: I am Reese Tezzo, and this is future of Water, which we talk all the ways which companies, utilities and people are addressing the challenges and opportunities in water. This is another milestone. It's going to be episode 85, so on our way to 100, and I know this one's going to be a good one, because I'm joined today by Bluefields, Chloe Meyer, and Keith Hayes, Bluefield's european team, of which Chloe and Keith are obviously integral participants. The team has been building out its research for a growing roster of clients in the region and elsewhere. So, as we head into 2024, I thought it would be interesting for you to kind of hear their on the ground perspectives of key trends in the region, from water quality and reuse, to circular economy policies and measures coming down the pipe further, are trying to figure out if there are any implications when it comes to water management and energy prices as it's impacted by things like Ukraine and Russia, and what it feels like from a water industry perspective. But before we bring Keith and Chloe into the conversation, I thought, as I've started to do, share some news that caught my attention this past week, or at least one of the analysts attention that shared it with me, and I thought it was interesting. So let's get to it.
California water Resources Control Board is tentatively planning for a vote next week. So by the time you've heard this, I think that may already have happened, if it does. But the vote is to discuss regulation that would turn sewage into drinking water across California, or at least allow things like toilet to tap with. That, in my mind, is putable reuse. It's already in use in the state, but more crudely put, it's converting water from toilets and shower and sort of gray water into drinking water. So that would be what we would call potable reuse. Other places in the world, such as Singapore as well as Namibia, are deploying direct potable reuse. Rarely have we seen this in the US. Wastewater has typically been treated, gone to ocean outfalls. But for any reuse, with few exceptions, it's been into aquifer. So that would be indirect potable reuse. The one exception, or at least one thing that comes to mind, I think back in 2015, it was Wichita Falls, Texas, that an emergency water issue. They didn't have any water, so they quickly installed some onsite or temporary water treatment solutions and basically started putting water straight into the pipe and it works. The technology exists, so it's not as if it doesn't happen. But according to the discussions in California of approved California sanitation districts who are hoping to start construction on some projects in 2025 and maybe beginning the delivery of treated wastewater for drinking water purposes in 2032, it's a little scary that it will take seven years since a number of these projects have been planning for a while. But it's worth pointing out that Laura Ingram on Fox News had brought this up and mocking California, saying that California was going to start recycling poop water and that it's disgusting and gross. But what people don't realize is that the water cycle is reused water. So let's focus more on the science and less on hyperbole. Maybe that would go a long way. Otherwise, it's just a bunch of nonsense. So with that being said, why do we bluefield care? Well, quite honestly, reuse discussions, potable direct and indirect, have been underway for some time. After conversations with industry leaders that I've personally had at utilities and engineering firms, indirect potable reuse is likely the most appropriate, or that's where everybody's going to lean towards, because, one, it's less contentious. It does prevent what we would call a barrier between the direct end user of the treated wastewater instead of putting it right into the pipes, which actually is possible. Even surface water supplies have problems. It gets treated and there are boil water advisories and things happen.
But if it happens with direct potable, there's going to be a wildfire of outrage, I suspect. And it's something we're going to have to come to terms with if it does go down that path. But for what it's worth, according to Bluefield Research's data navigator dashboard, and that is basically a dashboard of all the reuse projects we've been tracking for the better part of a decade. So of the planned projects, only 4% of the 1050 that are slated for reuse, only 4% are actually potable or direct or indirect potable reuse. We're also interested in this measure because also 41% of the plan projects that we have in our data set are in California. So hence the interest in these policy discussions. But rather than raising cane, and that's no relation to the fast food chain, like I said, a little less hyperbole and more focus on science, such as understanding the water cycle and what that is before saying that treated wastewater is not clean or might not be clean. In fact, it's probably cleaner if it's not cleaner, know, surface water bodies in many cases. So know, these comments are just creating more problems and ultimately, than they're helping, should I say. But with that being said, let's get to Keith and Chloe. They've got some really interesting insights on what's happening in Europe.
All right, so I'm joined here today by Keith Hayes and Chloe Meyer.
Keith, how's it going?
[00:06:26] Speaker C: It's going well. Reese, good to be back with you.
[00:06:29] Speaker B: Yeah, it's just for the holidays. So you guys are together in Barcelona. So, Chloe, you got into Barcelona or got up at least, so I'm told at 03:00 a.m. This morning. So I know you guys are meeting today and maybe even some holiday festivities tonight. How are things with you?
[00:06:47] Speaker A: Really good. Happy to be here today.
[00:06:49] Speaker B: Nice. So glad you guys are both here. And so I brought you guys on because, as some people may or may not know, our team in Europe, of which you guys are included, obviously have been building out a wealth of Europe focused content. This includes everything know in depth deep dives into reuse markets in Europe, to capital expenditure forecasts for the municipal sector, a number of different policy analyses of sort of emerging changes from everything from pfas to water quality and so on. But as I mentioned in the intro to everybody, all the listeners thought this would be a good time to share some insights, what's happening on the european continent, if not elsewhere. So let's jump right into it. So maybe, Chloe, let's start with you. Maybe you could help paint the picture as we look at 2024. What are some of the biggest factors influencing, if not disrupting, the water sector in Europe that you guys are seeing?
[00:07:53] Speaker A: Right. So I think one of the biggest elements that's going to continue influence the industry and maybe even disrupt it is first climate change and specifically drought and water scarcity in general. I think this year in Europe, the continent has really suffered from scarcity. This summer, a number of cities in several countries faced water shortages because of droughts. There were tap water halts in the UK, in France, in Spain. Some crops suffered from the lack of irrigation out of the lack of water. So it's been really influencing the lives of people. And this has also forced a number of countries to invest in solutions to face those water scarcities. And specifically, I'm thinking here about wastewater reuse. A number of countries have ramped up investments towards wastewater reuse this year, whether it is municipal wastewater reuse, obviously, but it's also happening at the local scale or the facility level, with industrial industries implementing onsite reuse, the sort of fight, if I can say, against drought and curb water scarcity, also extends beyond wastewater reuse. It extends towards leakage detection, for instance, and the condition assessment of pipes, so that we utilities don't waste as much water as they currently do for leakage. So definitely one of the big factor that is influencing management of water and wastewater, and also investments, both from the utility, the municipal side of things, but also from the industrial side.
Another, I think, factor that is going to continue influence the industry moving forward is all the sort of exceptional funding mechanisms that we've seen coming up this year. I'm thinking here in particular of the funding mechanisms set up in Spain and in Italy, which are both backed by the exceptional funding recovery facility support that the EU has put together to boost the economy. Post Covid, we've seen that large share of the funding mechanism in both Spain and Italy is going towards the water industry and specifically towards the digitalization of the water industry. So definitely here is something to continue monitor to see how much it's going to turn into new conflict opportunities, in particular at the municipal level. And we've seen also sort of new funding mechanism in other countries. I'm thinking here about France, who published earlier this year a new water plan with allocated funding to reduce leakage levels. So again, the question on leakage is on the table and still thinking about funding. We can mention here the UK market, who's looking at its new asset management plan investment cycle M eight utilities have submitted their plans for M eight will start in 2025. So again, something to look forward to in the next few months, maybe a last one. In terms of factors that I'm thinking about when thinking about what's going to influence the water industry, I think it's definitely the current inflationary environment. We see a number of utilities throughout very different countries who are increasing water bills as a consequence of increased operational expenditure. The cost of producing, the cost of distributing water, of collecting and treating wastewater is going up because of inflation when it comes to energy prices, the cost of chemicals as well. So I think it's something that is going to be reflected in some investment plans for the future. Again, we see the utilities in the UK that are acknowledging the increases in operational spending. So definitely something we should keep an eye on in terms of how it's going to impact future investments.
[00:13:07] Speaker B: So, I mean, just out of curiosity, since you guys are both obviously in mean compared to last year, I know it was a lot of discussion we had actually at, with the, with what's happening in Russia or maybe more specifically Ukraine. And the concerns about energy prices, can you still feel that pressure when it comes? Because obviously that's an impact on sort of everything from electricity prices to pumping. But also now it's wintertime, so gas prices and fuels are being used for various things, whether it be just for power production, but also there are collateral impacts. Are you guys still feeling that now?
[00:13:48] Speaker C: Yeah, I think there's industries that are.
It's definitely subsided to some extent. I mean, the huge jump we saw, I mean, last year, I think you had, like a 70% to 80% jump per megawatt hour in the first quarter in several european countries, which crushed a lot of industrial manufacturing. And they've been looking for ways to optimize how they're using power. And we've definitely had some clients that have been working with utilities, particularly on just the wastewater management side, and how to deal with sludge management. They're starting to look more at producing renewable natural gas, so finding other revenue streams to get out of that wastewater. So that connects with the circular economy. But there's just a very strong business case there. Europe has turned on or still operating some coal plants in places like Germany, Poland. And I think that war situation in Ukraine has made it tough to move away from fossil fuels. But it's happening. And Europe really wants to be a leader in terms of transitioning renewables, even if it means having some pain in the near term to bring the cost down to that. And obviously, on the horizon are all these initiatives to produce green hydrogen. Right. And I know we've done some research about the water footprint around that, but the other thing I was going to say, just go back to Chloe's point around drought. I mean, that's something you really still mean, particularly here in Spain. They have started to have water cuts in towns outside of Barcelona. They have already prepared the port of Barcelona to receive shipments of drinking water in the second quarter of next year, if it doesn't start to rain, they are cutting the average per capita consumption that's allowed from 230 liters down to 210 liters. So this is all a really big deal, and it's in the press all the time. There's a lot of finger pointing about mismanaging maybe some of the infrastructure spend, but that's something that's still ongoing. And as Chloe said, it's driving a lot of the funding mechanisms. That's where that money is going to be going, is to metering, to leak detection, and to replacing pipes.
[00:16:28] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I think that's interesting, because know, Barcelona itself also has access to desalinated water as well. So kind of goes to show you how bad it is and or could be. So that's.
Keith, I appreciate that. So sort of changing gears a little bit. So a question for you, you both you and Chloe do a great deal of work on the consulting side of Bluefield's business. And so we have companies and decision makers coming to us always looking for things. Know, look, we're trying to break into the there or maybe even a specific segment. So is looking at it from maybe an outsider. If you want to call me an outsider, it's fine. What are some of the key challenges and opportunities that we're seeing in the european water sector that businesses maybe should be aware of? Are there select industries that are receiving greater notice? Any perspective on think?
[00:17:31] Speaker C: Well, if we're first talking about municipal water and wastewater, some related to what Cloy was mentioning before, the countries that are receiving recovery funding. And I would flag Spain and Italy in particular, this is a pretty big influx of infrastructure spend that hasn't been seen probably in a decade or more. And so Italy is a case where they've got over 40% leakage rates in some parts of the country. That's actually the national average. So there's a lot of money going into those countries to upgrade their distribution networks on the drinking water side. So there's definitely a business opportunity there for hardware, software providers, companies that are able to provide services to optimize the way that those networks are laid out and managed in eastern Europe as well. Some of those funds are going to modernizing networks. So both the funding from the EU, but also from the EBRD, the EIB, there's a program to modernize and get more metering in place, get a lot of pipes replaced in places like Bulgaria, Romania. So there's definitely opportunity there, just in terms of nuts and bolts investment on the muni side, on the industrial side, going back to that idea of circular economy, it sounds good and green and putting stuff on the sustainability reports. But more and more there is this underlying business case around generating revenue streams and reducing costs, particularly when your energy costs go up. So when we're talking about industrial with our clients lately, we're looking a lot at food and beverage. I would say it's a very dispersed industrial vertical where you've got dairy and breweries and wineries and food processing, and they all are generating a lot of effluent that has high organic content, which requires high level of treatment. And there's also nutrients to be recovered from that. And we may be talking about anaerobic digestion, getting biogas out of it. So food and bev is a big one. And there was just a huge conference, actually, in Spain on biomethane capture, and we're starting to see a lot more on biomethane around Europe. You don't necessarily have the types of subsidies that you had for solar or wind power, but biogas is starting to get more and more support as it forms part of that circular economy idea. And wastewater is at the center of that in terms of finding feedstock for biogas. So industrial biogas is something I would also flag.
Stormwater is another topic that we've worked on for a few different equipment suppliers over the past year. Stormwater being both the mechanical treatment, but then the capture and rerouting of stormwater, and cities coming up with better sustainable urban drainage systems. So it's a tricky one. Stormwater, which we at Bluefield obviously have picked away at for several years now because it combines both road infrastructure and municipal water utility infrastructure. There's also commercial infrastructure where they've got drains in parking lots or around buildings.
That's another one that a lot of clients are trying to get their head around. And we think there's opportunity there as extreme weather events are becoming more frequent, which means rain. And that investment in storage tanks, in monitoring systems, and in the infrastructure to channel that stormwater is definitely a growing opportunity. And then the last thing I'd probably say is just around agriculture, and in a country like Spain or Italy, agriculture consumes, at least in Spain, around 80% of the total amount of drinking water available.
And so getting a grip on leakage and hot tapping and illegal use of water resources around agriculture is a huge deal. And there are opportunities there in terms of monitoring and optimizing irrigation systems. So those are a few that I'd probably call out.
[00:22:13] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I think that's super helpful. I think as we started off, as Chloe pointed out, drought is always the one that catches everybody's eye. But I'd say increasingly, and just by sort of monitoring and measuring, even client and water industry requests, to us, stormwater is definitely on the rise. I mean, it's sort of the other side of the climate equation that no one, everybody thinks about not having enough water. But if you're a city manager, cities are getting flooded. Also, agriculture is getting flooded. It's a serious issue. And so what are the solutions to manage that? And there are solutions, both hardware, so software and digital. So maybe. Maybe that's a good segue, sort of, as I say, digital. It makes me think of emerging technologies and digital water tech, but also business models. Chloe, I don't know. How is that contributing to growth of businesses in the european water sector? Are you seeing a lot more activity there and what role do these technologies play?
[00:23:19] Speaker A: Right. I think it's a good question. And maybe first, speaking about the sort of business models, I think what we are seeing more and more, and what we are likely going to see to an even bigger scale, is really new business models that sort of bridge the gap between municipal and private sectors. And here I'm not talking just about investments or about how a technology vendor can offer a services or hardware solution, a technology solution to a municipal utility. But I'm talking more about how both sectors of the industry can find synergies from the point of view of their respective water users. And to that extent, I have one example in mind, which is what the port of Antwerp in Belgium is doing. We have an upcoming project, which is a wastewater reuse project in which the local municipal utility will supply treated wastewater to reclamation facility, where further treatment will be provided to reclaim that wastewater and make it fit for industrial applications, and that reclaimed water will be actually distributed to industrial players that are gathered in the hub that is the port of Antwerp. What's interesting here is that the municipal utilities and the private players involving in the building and later on operation and management of that reclamation facilities facility have formed a joint venture. So it's really about finding a new business model. And I think it's even more so important when we look at reuse, because it's really difficult to find a business model that generates positive revenues when we look at wastewater reuse from the foreign municipal wastewater utilities. So finding those cooperation opportunities with the private investors, private offtakers of wastewater reuse, is also a way to create a more sustainable and financially more beneficial business model. Potentially another new business model that I'm thinking about, for which we've seen a few examples this year, are performance based contracts that take into account environmental cause. And I'm thinking here, concession contracts to operate municipal utilities. We've seen two examples of those this year in France, specifically in the cities of Montpelier and Lille.
Both cities have ten to 15 year concession agreements that were just renewed and awarded this year. And both contracts include a performance based revenue option stating, which is going to be based on the leakage level reductions. And basically, the private operative of the utility will either not get paid or will get fined if they don't achieve set leakage level reductions. And I think, again, taking into account the pressures that climate change is putting on municipal utilities, but also the infrastructure, I think we are likely going to see more and more performance based contracts like those ones we've seen this year in France.
[00:27:24] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I think the conversation about leakage, it is sort of crazy. It's not to be overlooked that your last example about performance based contracts for reducing leakage, where it's not just leaking water, it's also you're leaking the dollars that go into everything from the treatment, the pumping and everything related to that. So as Keith said, in Italy, when you're seeing things like 40% of every liter or gallon, whatever your measure is going out into the environment, it adds up and can no longer be overlooked, particularly when you're seeing things like droughts, as extreme as they have been. Keith, what about you on the technology side? Anything to add that you guys are seeing that might be of.
[00:28:15] Speaker C: I think, you know, there's been an interesting evolution, I'd say, over the past year at Bluefield, we spent a lot of time looking at the digital water space this past year. There's definitely been a slowdown in the amount of m a around digital. We think that the sector is maturing to some extent. There was a lot of talk around digital twin being introduced for municipal utilities two or three years ago. I think now what we're seeing is that systems are making steps towards designing and implementing, rather than having a digital twin. There's a lot of things you got to do before that, like getting your remote telemetry up to par, optimizing the way network modeling is being done, and monitoring.
And so we are seeing systems start to move in that direction again. I think a lot of funding, we're going to see recovery funding in Spain and Italy, some funding in the amp cycle in the UK that is going to be targeting, building out better visibility on these networks so that they can move in that direction. But the other obviously exciting thing is how AI is going to get used on water networks, or for what operations, or how can it be implemented to improve the way that these systems are operating. And one of the big challenges that you have in operating a water network is just the massive amount of data that needs to be processed, right. Utilities utility personnel are getting bombarded on an ongoing basis with tons of data from their assets and whether it's water quality or pressure or levels of tanks. And so having a tool like AI that can optimize how that data gets processed to help support operations decisions, that's pretty exciting, especially when it can isolate what are the real problems and separate out all the background noise of stuff that's going fine. And so I think what we're starting to see, whether it's the use of AI to go through condition monitoring footage inside sewers and determine that there are certain areas of a sewer system that may need more attention than others after putting tons of gigabytes of images through an AI engine is huge. And so I think incremental gains that we're going to see around processing data, making operational decisions are going to be starting to become a key part of the way that some of these digital technologies are used. The other thing around AI is, again, it's somewhat related to condition monitoring. We did some sessions presenting companies at Aquatech in Amsterdam a couple months ago. Actually, that was beginning of November. Feels like a while now.
And I think one of the things that came out there was how AI can be used to optimize the way that different assets, what noises they make. So, like, if a pump is starting to make a strange noise, the AI can detect and provide acoustic analysis. Or if you have a membrane where the water quality starts to drop, AI can make suggestions about cleaning the membranes to optimize the way that that component is functioning within a module in a treatment plant. So I think that's seen as a pretty interesting driver for innovation going forward.
[00:32:14] Speaker B: Yeah, the AI piece is interesting. I mean, I think a couple of years ago, we did a white paper with arcadus talking about AI and its applications within the water sector. The irony of it is we brought in our colleague Amber Walsh. She might start talking about data centers and how much water data centers know in this case that water is being used to make water utilities more efficient. So that's not a cynical comment. That's just a.
I mean, maybe that's a good lead to my next question for Chloe. And that know, as we talk about sustainability and environmental mean, the EU is obviously different than in many ways than what's happening in the US when it comes to measures such as this. What role can businesses play when it comes to water in promoting sustainable practices?
What are you seeing on the ground?
[00:33:09] Speaker A: Right. Well, I think we've mentioned a few times now during this conversation, reuse.
We've obviously worked and researched the reuse space a lot this year. But I do think that it is something that is definitely going to grow, obviously, in Europe. And I think that more than wastewater reuse, it's really about developing the concept of circular economy, which is something that the European Union encourages and for which the EU has targets for. But it's also, yeah. The idea of seeing wastewater as the sort of final link in the circular economy principle, from which energy, nutrients, other materials can be recovered and reused. Either it is reusing the water component from wastewater reuse, but sometimes it's about recovering and using specific compounds, like recovering metals from mining or metal manufacturing activities, recovering phosphorus from chemical manufacturing facilities and their effluent, and turning that phosphorus into nutrients to be used by the agricultural industry, turning sludge into biosolids. So it's really about transforming what has long been seen as a simple, if I can say, waste into a resource that can be used not necessarily by the same industries or the same stakeholders that produce the waste, but by some others. Hence the importance of bridging those gaps between different industries, between the municipal and the industrial segments, and between different users of resources. And I think that the concept of circular economy in general calls for also more stringent attention on the quality of water in general. The EU at the moment is looking at revising the urban wastewater treatment Directive, which is the regional regulatory text that frames the treatment, the collection and the treatment and the activity of municipal wastewater utilities. The member states. Sorry, are currently reviewing that text. And one of the core concepts that was proposed by the European Commission is to extend the concept of polluter payers, or the polluter pace concept, into an extended polluter pace principle, under which certain industrial manufacturers known for discharging effluents that are heavy in emerging contaminants, those industrial manufacturers, would be required to pay for the treatments of those effluents. So I think as we move forward into becoming more circular economies, obviously, the question of pollution, emerging contaminants, and how we remove those to avoid spreading them into the environment and through the different reuse applications, is going to become increasingly important, for sure.
[00:37:05] Speaker B: Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how it unfolds when it comes. We've done research this past year on policies or policies being developed in Europe compelling the business community to address some of their environmental impacts, including water wastewater. That's one thing that's a little bit harder to do than maybe what you see in the US. I mean, it kind of ties into ESG. We've talked a lot about the sustainability angle and how much can you really force that? I mean, Keith made a point earlier, is that companies as a whole are really just starting to look at water, wastewater treatment and the associated, let's say, costs, whether it be energy, et cetera, and chemical prices for treatment.
There are financial implications or impacts on the bottom line that ultimately are probably going to be. That's the biggest carrot out there for companies. The question is, will these policymakers in Europe be able to develop a stick that prods people along to act? So this is really interesting.
I think this podcast is going to be released right before the holidays, and so it's probably going to be released right at the beginning of January. So, as we are at this time of a release at the start of 2024, I was hoping maybe each of you could share maybe two things to look out for in the coming year about what's going to happen. Maybe we'll just start with you, Chloe. Give us two things to look out for when it comes to Europe.
[00:38:46] Speaker A: Sure. Well, building on what we were just saying, I think my first element to look out for in the next year is the final discussions and final decision on the revision of the urban wastewater treatment Directive. What will come out of it? I think it's a core text that regulates the water sector in Europe, and any updates to that text could turn into a huge milestone for the water industry. And again, going back to the point around emerging contaminants and how we treat those and prevent them from reaching the environment, any revision and updates regarding that point, an extension of the concept of budgeter pace principle could lead into or generate key investments into the water industry. So that would be my first element to look out for. The second is also going to be about kind of at the crossroad between regulation and investment, and it's all about the UK sector again, like we've said, the utilities have now submitted their mp business plans for review by Ofwat, the national regulator. The Ofwat in the mid year in 2024, will come back to utilities with comments on their business plans, and then the utilities will adjust those based on those comments. So I think definitely a process to monitor here and see how it's going to define investments for the next five years in the UK, for sure.
[00:40:49] Speaker B: Yeah, it'll be interesting to see what happens in the UK.
There's a lot going on. Obviously, we're on the back end of Brexit, but also they've been impacted by high energy prices, high inflation. And also Keith and I had recorded podcast several months, maybe mid year, on Tim's water. I think there's still questions about what's even going to happen to that. And that's the London water utility that is essentially out of money. And they're trying to address that. And it's raised questions not only about Thames water, the ongoing violations, wastewater effluent violations, but also offwat and just private investment or ownership of utilities as a whole. So look forward to seeing how that rolls out in the coming year. And the Amp cycle, obviously, is a big deal, not only for the utilities, but also there are a lot of private players, engineering firms involved in that. So that's great. So, Keith, what about you? What's on your radar for 2024?
[00:41:58] Speaker C: I think the way that that recovery money actually finds its way into projects is something to keep one's eye on in 2024. So, for us, the main countries there would probably be Spain and Italy. Spain has their Perte or Perte program. There's about €1.3 billion up for grabs. They just announced the first tranche being granted about a month ago. So that means that you move from a phase where they're granting the funding to then utilities, municipalities turn around and start tendering out projects for sourcing equipment services to modernize their networks. So that's a big one, both in Spain and in Italy. I wouldn't say there's one tender, necessarily, but most large cities like Barcelona, Bilbao, Madrid, all have pretty large programs laid out where they want to spend that money. The second thing is that this year is when the european sustainability reporting standards come into effect. So they are going to be phased in for larger companies, which means beginning in 2024. So as of January 1, standards will apply for companies employing more than 500 people to begin reporting on their sustainability, which is also going to require reporting on their water usage. And that's a big deal. It's probably going to be a few years before we have a data set that we can really, I would say, dive into. But what it means is that water footprint is being incorporated in a more transparent way into sustainability. We're going to be able to compare more across companies and countries and start to use that as our measuring stick. When we consider how much is being spent, how many violations, it's just another angle to really figure out how companies and different entities are complying or not to try and move forward on the bigger goals we have for making the water industry more sustainable.
[00:44:23] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I think that's. I mean, it's interesting, you guys are both pointing at specific policies or sort of top down drivers of change. So it'll be interesting to see how that does play out. What I really look forward also is to this coming year, looking at things, know what's happening within industrial reuse or just industrial water management. But also, like Chloe brought up the UK and its amp cycle, what are the implications for that? And I think right at the start of the year, know our forecast capital expenditure forecast for Europe will be rolling out as well. I know those are already sort of way into the works, basically at the finish line. So with that being said, I want to thank you guys for taking the time. It's obviously later in the day there and you guys got some holiday festivities to get to not so long from now. So thanks for stepping up on somewhat short notice, but this is super interesting and I know everybody appreciates it. So thanks a million for doing so.
[00:45:27] Speaker C: All right. Merry, merry.
[00:45:29] Speaker B: All right. Well, that's how we leave it, I guess. If we're in the UK, they say, like, happy Christmas here, we'll say Merry Christmas, but maybe you would just say Felice Navidad. So with that being said, thanks, guys, and we'll talk again soon.
[00:45:48] Speaker C: All right, have a good one.
[00:45:52] Speaker B: All right, thanks to Keith and Chloe for jumping on, not only for stepping up, but I think it's the holidays, so it's tough to pen people down. Their insights are really useful. They are on the ground in Europe and working with a number of companies on business strategies and approaches to developing businesses and strategies for the region. So the holidays are here, as I mentioned. So it's going to be a little light when it comes to the news and information side from Bluefield Research. But by the time you hear this, we should be well into the swing of things for 2024. So thanks for being patient when it comes to that. And we look forward to a great 2024 when it comes to the Future Water podcast. So before we sign off on this one, the last recording of 2023, if you're in Boston in 2024, or Barcelona for that matter, where Keith and Chloe are, let us know and we would enjoy the opportunity for a meeting. We like these meetings, and I'm not lying when I say this. A number of people have heard this on the podcast and they've come by our offices because of it. So take advantage of it. Please subscribe and give us a review. I know you need or want to give us a review. We need you to do so because it helps us help you. If you have any questions or comments and just topic ideas about the future water podcast, send us a note at
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